UFO Abductee in Stein Online
Conference with Leah Haley on Alien Abductions
13 Feb 95 at 22:00

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Stein Online is an ongoing interactive talk show on CompuServe
that features interviews with celebrities, authors, interesting
people, and experts from all walks of life. Hosted by media
personality Eliot Stein, it is the first show of its kind on any
online service. GO STEIN and check the Guest Listing for other
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Leah Haley, a certified public accountant who says she has been
abducted by alien beings a number of times since childhood and
has received telepathic instructions from unknown sources.
Haley, who has two master's degrees and has taught university
accounting courses, also claims that she has been interrogated by
armed government officials trying to get information from her.

Haley, who has two master's degrees and has taught university
accounting courses, also claims that she has been interrogated by
armed government officials trying to get information from her.
During the Stein Online conference, she will provide meticulous
documentation of her experiences. CompuServe members are invited
to participate and ask questions of Haley.

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The conference had already started for about 3 minutes.

(Eliot) as a result of having come out with this information, many friends
dropped her, her husband divorced her (she is remarried) and her daughter
won't talk to her so her revelations have taken quite a toll on her life!
Leah, thanks for coming. At what age did these alien abductions start
in your life?

(Leah) The first encounter was at age 3. I have no memory prior to that.
I've had them throughout my lifetime AND they continue.

(Eliot) What happens during an abduction?

(Leah) Generally, I'm asleep and I'm awakened by a force field pulling out
of my bed levitating me, pulling me out of the house and then there is a
lapse in memory that follows. The next thing I remember is being aboard an
alien space craft lying aboard a platform and being medically examined by
chalky colored creatures who all look identical.

(Eliot) Are these the "GREYS" which we see pictured on many books written
by people who have had the same experiences as yourself?

(Leah) Yes, many people call them "Greys" but they are an off-white color.

(Eliot) Please describe them.

(Leah) Between 4 and 5 feet tall, no hair, no ears, they have two little
holes for a nose, huge almond-shaped BLACK eyes, 4 fingers on a complete
hand, long thin neck, willowy body, no joints in their knees or elbows.

(Eliot) Do they have any reproductive organs?

(Leah) NO.

(Eliot) Then how do you think they reproduce?

(Leah) I really don't know.

(Eliot) How do they communicate ?

(Leah) Telepathically through their EYES!!!

(Eliot) In what manner?

(Leah) Mind to mind, they can read our thoughts and we can read theirs.

(Eliot) We are interviewing Leah Haley, author of "Lost Was The Key"
and "Ceto's New Friends," both published by Greenleaf Publications,
(615)896-1356 to order her books.

(Eliot) You have risked a professional career and many close relationships
in order to reveal this information. You obviously feel quite strongly
about it.

(Leah) Yes...I feel the public has a right to know what is going on.

(Eliot) What do the aliens communicate to you?

(Leah) They have told me that they are performing genetic experiences in
order to allow for our mutual existence of both species.

(Eliot) Do the aliens ever show any emotions or transmit any to you?

(Leah) Yes. I have seen caring, love, fear.

(Eliot) Do they ever ask you any personal questions?

(Leah) No, I don't remember anything like that.

(Eliot) At what age did you start remembering these abductions?

(Leah) I remembered one abduction when I was in my early 30's, but I
explained it away as a dream. I had never heard of alien abductions at
that time in my life. So the only thing I could do was convince myself it
was a dream. Then in 1990, I started having flashbacks of my abduction
experiences. Then I underwent hypnotic regression to confirm the reality
of my experiences.

(Eliot) With all due respect and just to confirm your seriousness, have you
ever gone to a mental health professional to verify that you are completely
sane?

(Leah) YES!!!! I went in an attempt to be pronounced crazy so I can be
cured, however I visited 3 therapists who all verify that I am completely
sane!!!!

(Eliot) Isn't there a psychiatrist who deals with people who make the
same claims as you?

(Leah) There are many psychologists and psychiatrists who have dealt with
alien abductees. One of the therapists I went to see deals with alien
abductees all the time, but the other two knew nothing about the
phenomenon. They all say I am perfectly normal--but do suffer from Post
Traumatic Stress disorder as of the result of these very "REAL" events!

(Eliot) Why do you think you have been selected for these abductions?

(Leah) I wish I knew. I don't have a crew.

(Eliot) Please describe the alien's spaceship.

(Leah) The one that I've seen most often is spherical in shape, has
portholes around it, is extremely big inside, it is very clean streamlined,
very efficient. The equipment comes down from the ceiling and is stored
on the walls. It is extremely bright inside. One CANNOT see the source
of the lighting. I've also seen a nursery of hybrid babies: it looks like
our hospital nurseries and the room was extremely bright. I felt it was much
too bright for babies. I call it a baby greenhouse because it was almost
like they were growing them! I remember seeing transparent containers
suspended in the air and the babies appeared to be suspended in the
containers.
(Eliot) Are these baby versions of the "GREYS"?

(Leah) They look like half-human half-greys, they look like human fetuses
except with the giant eyes!

(Eliot) Have you ever asked one of the aliens if you could bring back an
unearthly object to prove that you are really experiencing this?

(Leah) If I've asked, I don't remember.

(Eliot) Let's start taking some questions from the audience.

(Greg Romines) How many time have you been abducted?

(Leah) Dozens of times.

(Greg Romines) How often does it occure?

(Leah) Sometimes, I have the earmarks of an abduction experience physical
evidence. It occurs randomly. No set pattern.

(Eliot) What kind of physical evidence?

(Leah) Scars that appear and HEAL overnight. Bruises, injection marks,
punctures that appear overnight.

(Nirvana) Did you see anybody else, like Kurt Cobian?

(Leah) I do remember seeing other humans too. However, one of them was
not Kurt Cobain.

(Beth) Did you see the movie Fire in the Sky and as far as Hollywood goes,
do you feel it was an accurated depiction?

(Leah) Absolutely not an accurate depiction. It was accurate up to the
point when Travis was taken aboard the craft.

(Beth) Good, that was scary.

(Leah) After that, once aboard the craft, it was not accurate. I've had a
few offers to do movies of my story because of the way "Fire in the Sky"
was handled, I've turned them down.

(Beth) As far as physical evidence, have you ever found implants? I saw
a special where a woman was x-rayed and a small object was removed.

(Leah) I won't do it unless they do an accurate description. The
experiences are so spectacular they don't have to be hyped up. I remember
something piercing me behind my right ear. I remember something being
pressed into my upper nostril. I also remember some U.S. govt. personnel
doing something to my ear.

(Eliot) (NOTE: Leah also claims that a U.S. government secret squad
abducted here, drugged her, told her to keep her mouth shut about her
experiences and interrogated her).

(Glen Jamieson) You said that the space craft was very large. Are there
any physical signs that such a craft has landed?  Can the existence of
this craft be confirmed or supported by Air Traffic Control data in the
area of the abductions?

(Leah) At one of my residences, there was a round circle of dead brown
grass, and my husband and I could never figure out what caused it. It
remained there the entire two times we lived there. Later, we visited the
residence after we moved out and the circle of dead grass had disappeared.
I have seen evidence of Air Traffic Control picking up UFO's on TV reports.

(David) Do you have any idea of what star system they originate from?

(Leah) No, I don't. They could be from another dimension or other time
instead of another planet.

(Eliot) What is your perception of time when you are aboard these
spacecrafts?

(Leah) I don't think about time then but only after the abduction, I'm
completely exhausted as if I've been gone many more hours than what the
clock says.

(Gary Kennett) I was wondering if you know anything about the special
hangar in Nevada?

(Leah) Yes. I've heard about it. I don't know any more than what people
have read about or heard about on TV. I believe that hangar is where our
military has space ships that they are testing.

(Chris C.-Sidekick) About your children's book, "Ceto's New Friends", do
you really think it is right to be calling these creatures "friends"
to kids?

(Eliot) Let me explain. Our guest has also written a "Children's
style--picture book" which is quite controversial because it has two
average American kids being taken aboard a spaceship and meeting a friendly
alien. There has never been a book like it in the history of children's
literature.

(Leah) I wrote the children's book in an attempt to alleviate fear of
aliens because abductions are going to occur whether we like it or not. But
if we are less fearful, the experience will be less traumatic. I have
been criticized by some for writing this book and depicting the aliens
as friendly.

(Mr. Stiffey) You claim you were abducted at age 3. Didn't anyone notice
you were missing?

(Leah) No. They didn't. I saw the creature just inside the woods. My
parents were lying on the grass nearby.

(Mr. Stiffey) How long do the abductions last?

(Leah) I assume that the aliens put them in a trance of some kind. There
are many reports of aliens doing this. When I was three, I told the aliens
that my mother would get mad if I went with him and he said, "Don't worry,
we'll make things OK with your mother." My mother doesn't remember anything
except my father being very ill. The abductions last one hour or so.

(Tom Culler) Two-parter, #1: any chance that they will ever meet humans
in public?

(Leah) I think that is entirely possible. They told me they will be
coming in greater frequency and in greater numbers. They want me to talk
about this so the public won't be afraid.

(Tom Culler) #2: What was it about 'Fire in the Sky' you didn't like? It
WAS scary.

(Leah) I didn't say I didn't like it--I said that it wasn't a true depiction.

(Tom Culler) I guess I'm asking what was wrong with the depiction.

(Leah) I've never seen bodies in plastic body bags. The medical experiments
they perform are no worse than what one would experience in a doctor or
dentist's office.

(Eliot) They don't make you cough do they?

(Leah) I don't remember coughing.

(R.C.) Do you wish to be abducted again?

(Leah) No. But I don't fear it.

(R.C.) The other human you spoke about, did you get to talk with him, and
did he or she see you?

(Leah) I would like to learn more about these entities! There has been
more than one instance. There was a man lying to my left on a platform.
I was also lying on a platform but we did not speak. It was as if we were
in a drug state. On another time, I saw a man dressed in green fatigues.
I spoke to him but I don't remember what we talked about.

(Eliot) That wasn't "Rambo" was it?

(Leah) NO (laughing)

(R.C.) Have you seen the same aliens more than once?

(Leah) YES!!!!

(Eliot) How do you know?

(R.C.) As if you reconized them?

(Leah) One of them always tranquilizes me. His name is CETO. I don't know
how I know his name.

(Eliot) Do they have any kind of video aboard the spaceship?

(Leah) I don't remember, but other abductees have reported seeing things
that resemble videos in relation to virtual reality scenarios.

(Eliot) Are you able to fight the aliens at all?

(Leah) NO. One feels much like a person feels right before he undergoes
surgery, drugged and groggy. Incapable of fighting. I fought the military
that interrogated me about the aliens.

(Eliot) Give us an address if anybody wants to write to you.

(Leah) P.O. BOX 8152 Murfreesboro, TN 37133

Free discussion period follows:

(Tom Culler) I think the government knows what would happen - mass
hysteria - if this got too big. They may have a feeling, but to actually
see it - that our government can't control it - would scare a LOT of folks.
(Tom Cantor) I am writing a school paper on alien abductions.  Does
anyone live near San Diego? I'd like to chat or get an interview.
(K. Hett) I think that she's is well intentioned but does not necessarily
know their intentions.
(Mike Wilson) Externally directed hallucination in my book!
(John) I represent a group of abductees in the Pine Bush, NY area.
(Val Ogonowski) I take her DEAD serious because my husband and his sergeant
were underneath a spacecraft. It was never detected by NAFEC (close by) or
at least it's what they say.
(Eliot) Yes. I've talked to people involved with that 1947 Roswell incident.
Many normal people that saw a crashed UFO and dead alien bodies were told
by the government NEVER to talk about it.
(Val Ogonowski) AND many other people saw it within same few days. My
husband was interrogated by the government too.
(Tom Cantor) Have you been abducted, John?    
(John) yes
(Josh) if there apears to be so much technology (travel, etc,) then why
is that abductees report the tools to be so primitive?
(Mike Wilson) Because that's all they can imagine!
(Tom Culler) Eliot - would you want this happen, if just once?
(Eliot) I would not personally want to be abducted by aliens--even once.
All the abductees describe the helplessness of the situation.
(Rob Danskin) I thought it strange that the GREYS have asked Leah to talk
about them, but give her no evidence and information about themselves.
(John) I was taken along with other children from this area.
(Kevin) I wondered if any of you have ever read GRAPES OF WRATH?
(Tom Cantor) How old are you, John?
(Tom Culler) Val, any info on which military branch?
(John) I am 32.
(Tom Cantor) How many times have you been abducted?
(Tom Culler) What did you think about Fire in the Sky?
(John) I remember at least six times.
(Kevin) What do you mean abducted?
(Tom Cantor) John, how do your experiences compare to Leah's?
(John) I was taken against my will.
(Val Ogonowski) Where most abductees inside or outside at time of abduction?
Tom Culler: You mean who spoke to my husband and the others?
(Tom Culler) Yes, Val.
(Val Ogonowski) Tom Culler: I have no idea but I know they did (for SURE!!!)
Also: when people were abducted, were they inside their homes or mostly
outside, yeard or something???
(Tom Culler) Might as well spit it out, Greg.
(Josh) Val, I think abductees go inside.
(John) They are very similar to what Leah described.
(Greg Martin) Hmm, did anybody get a feel for the physical abilities of
these beings?
(Tom Cantor) John, (a question I wanted to ask Leah) how involved is the
gov't in all this?
(John) To me, they seemed to be very strong for their size.
(Tom Culler) I believe you, Val. I'm just hoping to find out who they are.
(John) I have been involved with a women writing abook about Pine Bush.
(Val Ogonowski) Tom Culler: I live 15 miles from NAFEC (military
installation) and they claimed they never detected a thing. But then, these
official guys come along and play it all down and tell everybody they are
full of bull. We KNOW the truth!!!
(Rob Danskin) Would you say, based on your experience, that the GREYS are
a possible threat?
(Tom Culler) I wonder if it would be CIA, FBI, or some unknown group.
(Tom Cantor) John, what do you feel "their" motive is?
(Val Ogonowski) No, very official and with appointments from Washington.
(Tom Cantor) The FBI would be the most likely organization.
(John) I was told as a child, that they would come back and I was to play
an important role.
(Eliot) Think about the implications if the U.S. government officially
announced that.
(Tom Cantor) John, what do you feel is their motive in abducting?
(Eliot) There were UFO'S and they have proof!
(Tom Culler) Like I said, Eliot. Mass hysteria.
(Val Ogonowski) Yes, Eliot. But better to know than not to.
(John) I have already meet two of the other children I met in the ship
as a child.
(Tom Culler) Val, for those who can handle it, yeah.
(Eliot) In addition to the mass hysteria, it would create a religious
paradox with even more hysteria!
(Val Ogonowski) Who can handle most things? Who can handle war? But
we have to. Who can handle other catastrophies? But we do.
(Rich) John, were they from your town?
(David) John, how has your experience affected your adjustment to the
adult world?
(John) I believe there will be a catastrophe and they will come.
(Josh) John, you met two of the abductees?
(Tom Culler) But the big unknown here, is this is another species, with no
history for us to rely on to predict their actions?
(Val Ogonowski) Well, they study us.
(Rob Danskin) Yeah. Anyone remember "V"?
(Val Ogonowski) We should have open ears to learn about them.
(John) I have intervied over 600 people from this area with similar
experiences.
(Tom Cantor) Do you guys think another species could have evolved, or it
was created by God?
(Kevin) I think you guys worry to much.
(Josh) :(
(Tom Cantor) Kevin, easy for you to say.
(Tom Culler) I think God may have set evolution in action. But let's not
open a different thread. We'll be here all night.
(Tom Cantor) OK
(Kevin) But all things come as you see them.
(Josh) Abductees always say that the aliens told them they are very
important. But what role do they play?
(Val Ogonowski) If they meant us harm, they could have harmed us long ago.
(David) John, is your collaborator on the book a published writer?
(Tom Cantor) Good point, Val
(John) no
(Val Ogonowski) :)
(Alexander) Why is there no similar discussion such as this with the aliens?
(David) I'm concerned you will not have the book done in publisheable form
then.
(Tom Culler) True, Val. But they've also reported to abductees that
they're coming in greater number and frequency. No need to panic, but I'm
trying to think this through.
(John) When it comes out, I am sure you wont miss it.
(Tom Cantor) John, do you want to be abducted again?
(Val Ogonowski) Wordly 'illegal aliens' are coming in greater numbers too
and I fear them more.
(John) I would like to understand why?
(Tom Culler) :>, Val.
(Rob Danskin) I would say that performing surgical procedures on you,
without your permission, and without explanation was a bit disturbing,
anyone agree on that point?
(Val Ogonowski) :)
(Rich) Agree
(Tom Culler) Rob, Hear, hear.
(Val Ogonowski) yup
(John) I fear for my son.
(Tom Cantor) Question: If we made truly documented contact with aliens,
could we tax them?
(Val Ogonowski) Hope so.
(Tom Culler) Fed will find a way, Tom.
(Tom Cantor) John, why do you fear for your son?
(Josh) To get really out there - I saw something where Nostradamus'
prediction was interpreted as blood in the sky in 2040 or something.
A war maybe? whoa.    
(Kevin) What do you mean?
(John) I was taken at age 3 and he is now three.
(Tom Cantor) War of the Worlds all over again.
(Tom Culler) Wonder what % of the population has gone through this.
(Tom Cantor) John, I'm praying for you and your son.
(Val Ogonowski) So am I.
(Josh) I heard a prediction that almost 1 million, actually an estimate,
of course.
(John) I would say that half of the people in this town have been taken.
(Tom Cantor) Wow!
(Josh) Where is pine bush?
(Tom Culler) Wow, John!
(Val Ogonowski) Why no there??
(John) Upstate NY.
(Rich) What town in NY?
(Val Ogonowski) Somewhere near Woodridge,NY?
(John) Near Middletown and Newburgh.
(Tom Culler) Did anyone find out if the abductees are generally at home
or out?
(Val Ogonowski) Tom, was asking same question earlier.
(Tom Cantor) Oh.
(John) It has been documented on the TV show sightings.
(Val Ogonowski) John, I was in Woodridge, NY two days ago. Seems the kind
of place for something like that.
(Tom Cantor) I'm writing a school paper and need an interview for it.
I hope the teacher will accept this.
(John) I was born in Woodridge, NJ.
(Val Ogonowski) Woodbridge? Up by exit 123 on Garden State Parkway??
(Josh) How about an interview of John - or someone else with experiences?
(Tom Cantor) Yeah
(John) No near, Hackensack.
(Val Ogonowski) I was up on Rt 17, I believe, NY state.
(Tom Cantor) John, when was your last abduction?
(Josh) John? How about it?
(John) I believe last year.
(Val Ogonowski) John, how old are you?
(John) 32
(Tom Cantor) Was your experience the same as Leah's?
(John) Yes.
(Tom Cantor) And you, Val?
(Tom Cantor) John, what did the craft look like?
(Val Ogonowski) What? Age? 54 this year.
(John) When I saw them take my brother, I could ony see a bright light.
(Tom Culler) John, how does your brother feel about it?
(Tom Cantor) John, how many times was your brother abducted?
(John) He is ill and I don't discuss it with him.
(Rich) John, do they talk?
(John) I remember two times with him.
(Tom Culler) Val, what does your husband report?
(John) Yes, they talk.
(Val Ogonowski) Is he ill because of the abduction?
(David) Do you think his illness is realted to the abductions?
(Tom Cantor) John, what do they say?
(John) He has MS.
(John) Don't be afraid.
(rich) John, were they the gray's?
(John) Yes
(Tom Cantor) John, if you could choose to erase your entire experiences
with aliens, would you?
(Josh) What others are there?
(John) Yes.
(Val Ogonowski) Tom, I'm sorry to hear about your brother.
(Tom Cantor) Me too.
(Val Ogonowski) My husband was on duty as police man and was hovered over
close and called his sergeant for verification. It sat there all that time.
The patrol cars were OK, not like in the movies (power out, etc) and his
sergeant saw it as well about 15 years ago. They were affraid to report
it, for fear everyone would say they are crazy
(Tom Cantor) I have never had a close encounter myself, but many of my
friends have and I am greatly intrigued by the subject.
(Tom Culler) I'm dying to see a craft, but that's as close as I want to get.
(Tom Cantor) Me too!
(John) If any one is interesed in Pine Bush, there is a telephone hotline
at 914 895-4262.
(Rich) John, I read a paper that 3 million grays were in underground
complexes called level 7 at Dulce.
(Val Ogonowski) There were a whole week of sighting here and a lot by
a power station nearby and the rest all around NAFEC yet, they claimed
nothing was on radar and that they don't know about them.
(Tom Cantor) What do you guys think about area 51 in Arizona?
(Josh) NAFEC?
(Tom Culler) Rich: what is Dulce?
(John) Pine Bush is involved with area 51 test flights.
(Val Ogonowski) Tom, I still have the newspaper clips from then too.
(Tom Cantor) John, how do you know?
(Val Ogonowski) Well, I believe that's the answer. Always close by
something important
(Tom Culler) Val - any chance you could fax them to me?
(Val Ogonowski) Yes, I could.
(John) There are underground facilties here also.
(Val Ogonowski) E-mail me your fax number 73313,65.
(Tom Culler) Thanks, Val! It's on its way...
(Rich) Tom, I am not sure but they call it "NIGHTMARE HALL"
(Tom Cantor) Never mind.  

COLD SPOTS: The Oakdale Leader newspaper claims that its premises in Oakdale, California, is haunted. In April the Western Region Paranormal Research (WRPR) group conducted an investigation on the premises. Editor Marg Jackson reports: “One evening, working late, I had my daughter at the office with me and saw her go past my door, out of the corner of my eye. I went back to check on her, because I assumed she went to the break room but when I got there, the lights were out and she wasn’t there. In fact, she was still seated at the desk up front when I went there. So she wasn’t who I saw go past my door. And no one else was in the building.” Source: Oakdale Leader 21st April

BRIGHT LIGHT: 1st May, 10pm, Dunfermline: “As my wife and I were saying goodbye to relatives who had been visiting, a bright light appeared in the sky moving horizontally very fast indeed. Our front door faces south and the bright light was moving from west to east. I shouted to my wife and relatives to look up. My wife came to where I was standing and she saw the light as well. As we watched the light I thought it was a plane on fire as bits of light then began to trail off behind the main light. The light then suddenly disappeared as quickly as it had come.” Source: www.uk-ufo.co.uk 1st May

AFTER THE DISASTER: Survivors of the Chilean earthquake claim they can hear the screams and moans of those that died in the tragedy. The Elmercurio News reports: “Ghostly shadows cross the Cardenal Raul Silva Henriquez Bridge in Constitucion; cell phone screens light up suddenly, as if trying to receive phone calls. The moans and tears of children and their mothers resonate throughout the wooded Curanipe camping grounds, where thirty people lost their lives on February 27th.” Ricardo Figueroa, a psychiatrist specializing in disasters at the Catholic University Hospital, explains: “When unexpected deaths or states of grief exist, it is normal for people to report experiences that may catalogued, in quotation marks, as supernatural. But this is a normal occurrence that increases during catastrophes.” Source: Elmercurio News 5th May
Jets Scrambled: An unknown cameraman took footage which apparently shows two military jets chasing a UFO over the M5 in the West Midlands, taken from a service station car park. Nick Pope remarked: “This is one of the best videos I’ve seen. It could be a new drone - that might explain the military jets. But you don’t normally test-fly secret projects in daylight. Alternatively, this could be the real thing - a UFO in our airspace and military aircraft scrambled to intercept, probably due to it being tracked on radar.” The MOD refused to comment but did agree that if they perceived any air threat to the UK they would scramble jets to intercept that danger. Source: The Sun 10th April 2010

LOUD BANG: On the 16th of April the witness woke up hearing “a beeping sound” in their Arizona home. He awoke to a pitch black room but as the witnesses eyes adjusted he could clearly see “small bluish grey aliens, 2 or 3 in height. Not clearly lit up like I was shining a light on them, and they were standing at my bedroom door way.” Then a bright light lit up a section of his bedroom wall which extinguished with a “loud bang.” With that the visitors disappeared, although the witness sensed he was not alone for some time afterwards. (Source MUFON April)
STAR WARS: On the 4th of April a male witness in Missouri claims he saw two UFOs firing missiles at each other, he said: “I first saw what I thought was a helicopter. I watched for some time then saw the light fire a missile which hit another similar ball of light. The two lights then threw missiles at each other for some time, until finally the second light zigzagged back and forth then disappeared, as though it had been destroyed. The witness mentions a similar incident in the area in 1997 in which a cow was found dead the next morning. (Source: MUFON April).
ROCK SLINGING: Yowie researcher ‘Tony’ has vowed never to go out on his own in the woods after a frightening encounter with what he claims were two Yowie in the Blue Mountains in NSW Australia, on the 3rd of April. He said: “At least two creatures were around me they made themselves very clear I wasn’t welcomed.” ‘Tony’ video-taped the incident, although nothing can be seen on the film of the creatures. He claims the creatures followed him into the woods and ran around him before throwing the rocks. In an interview the following day he was “still shaking.” (Source: www.disclosetv April).
Demon Attack: A 13 year old school boy in Mukumba, Zimbabwe, is haunted by an invisible “monster.” The boy first complained of stomach pains then he suffered bouts of unconsciousness. He has been observed to “physically fight” with an unknown entity witnesses are calling a goblin that caused the boy’s body to glow. A school teacher said: “On the first occasion, the boy claimed to have seen a short-bearded man wearing a black cloak. During his initial contact with the initially invisible creature, he would scream and try to ward off the invisible attacker and we later taught him to pray as a way to fight it off.” (Source: Daily Mail: 17th April).
SKUNK APE: On the 21st of April the witness was driving along Highway 37 in Berrien County, South Georgia when she something “hairy walking off the road and into the woods.” She said: “I saw the back of something it was tall. ... I thought it was a bear but a bear don’t walk on its back legs. ... Honestly, it looked like an ape. My husband is 6ft tall and it was about the same size as him.” (Source: The Valdosta Daily Times 7th May).
TRIANGULAR: Two triangular-shaped craft were seen over Kingston, New York, on the 29th of April. One witness reports: “The first of these, visible around 9:30 pm, shone bright headlights in front, two white flashing lights from behind, one or more flashing red lights at wingtip, and no less than four large round, non-flashing lights visible underneath, two white, one red and one green. The craft in question flew out of the northwest above Overlook Mountain and headed southeast towards Kingston. No less than seven other aircraft were visible in the air at the time, at various distances and altitudes, and at least two of them, bright yellowish spots of light, similar in appearance to the helicopters.” (Source: UFO Clearing House April).

The Shroud of Turin is a centuries old linen cloth that bears the image of a crucified man. A man that millions believe to be Jesus of Nazareth. Is it really the cloth that wrapped his crucified body, or is it simply a medieval forgery, a hoax perpetrated by some clever artist? Modern science has completed hundreds of thousands of hours of detailed study and intense research on the Shroud. It is, in fact, the single most studied artifact in human history, and we know more about it today than we ever have before. And yet, the controversy still rages. Click for Larger ViewThe image on the Shroud of Turin is very subtle. The closer you get, the less distinct it becomes. One of the best ways to look at the Shroud image is on a photographic negative. There, the light and dark values are reversed and the image appears more realistic and natural.The Shroud is a linen cloth woven in a 3-over-1 herringbone pattern, and measures 14'3" x 3'7".  These dimensions correlate with ancient measurements of 2 cubits x 8 cubits - consistent with loom technology of the period.  The finer weave of 3-over-1 herringbone is consistent with the New Testament statement that the "sindon" (or shroud) was purchased by Joseph of Arimathea, who was a wealthy man.  Also, Leviticus 19:19 speaks of the mixing of linen and cotton, but prohibits linen and wool or the mixing of vegetable and animal.  In 1969, Dr. Gilbert Raes of the Ghent Institute of Textile Technology in Belgium noted that there are traces of cotton (identified as Gossipium herbaceum) in the linen of the Shroud.In June 2002, the Shroud was sent to a team of experts for restoration.  One of them was Swiss textile historian Mechthild Flury-Lemberg.  She was surprised to find a peculiar stitching pattern in the seam of one long side of the Shroud, where a three-inch wide strip of the same original fabric was sewn onto a larger segment. The stitching pattern, which she says was the work of a professional, is quite similar to the hem of a cloth found in the tombs of the Jewish fortress of Masada.  The Masada cloth dates to between 40 BC and 73 AD.  This kind of stitch has never been found in Medieval Europe.Several studies have challenged the validity of the 1988 Carbon-14 tests done at Oxford, Zurich and Arizona Labs, which stated the shroud was made in the medieval ages.The shroud was badly damaged in a church fire in 1532 AD.  Nuns patched burn holes and stitched the shroud to a reinforcing cloth that is now known as the Holland cloth."  This probably occurred in 1534.No one knows for sure how the images were created.  The images are scorch-like, yet not created by heat, and are a purely surface phenomenon limited to the crowns of the top fibers.  The Shroud is clearly not a painting; no evidence of pigments or media was found.  The blood was on the Cloth before the image (an unlikely way for an artist to work).  There is no outline, no binders to hold paint, no evidence that paint, dye, ink, or chalk created the images, and there are no brush strokes.  According to world-renowned artist Isabel Piczek, the images have no style that would fit into any period of art history.  The images show perfect photo-negativity and 3-dimensionality.  It is not a Vaporgraph or natural result of vapors. The blood on the Shroud is real, human male blood of the type AB (typed by Dr. Baima Ballone in Turin and confirmed in the U.S.).  This blood type is rare (about 3% of the world population), with the frequency varying from one region to another.  Blood chemist Dr. Alan Adler (University of Western Connecticut) and the late Dr. John Heller (New England Institute of Medicine) found a high concentration of the pigment bilirubin, consistent with someone dying under great stress or trauma and making the color more red than normal ancient blood.  Drs. Victor and Nancy Tryon of the University of Texas Health Science Center found X & Y chromosomes representing male blood and "degraded DNA" (approximately 700 base pairs) "consistent with the supposition of ancient blood."

Date: 07-29-12
Host: George Knapp
Guests: Bill Scott, Matt Baglio

In the first half, the Founder of Free Our Family, Bill Scott, recounted an excruciating 18-month period when he and his wife invited a woman who was demon possessed, and the member of an active satanic network, into their home. The events began in October of 1988, when the woman called in to the Christian radio station where Scott worked, speaking in strange voices, and claiming that she was a teenage girl who was going to be sacrificed on Halloween. Later, when Scott met her in person, he found out she was actually a woman in her 30s named Roxanne. She spoke in multiple voices, some male, and one of them a young girl named Lacie.

During the two weeks she stayed at the Scott's home, strange events began to take place. But even after they found her another place to live, the unusual occurrences continued. Doors opened and closed on on their own, as well as lights turning off and on. At one point, he described seeing a black figure in the hallway. He said to it: "In Jesus' name, why do you feel you can be in my home?," and the figure replied in a normal speaking voice, "because I am an invited guest in this home." Subsequent to this, the Scott's discovered that Roxanne had hidden occult items such as a black robe underneath the bed where she had slept, and when they got rid of them, the events decreased. He continued to meet with Roxanne to try and help her, and learned from her former pastor that she was possessed by a demon referred to in the book of Revelation called Abaddon which means "destroyer," and that she had indeed created havoc in many people's lives.

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With skinwalkers becoming the subjects of popular books and recently, movies, it is fair to ask about their origins. In August 1996, a team of scientists arrived on a remote ranch in NE Utah to investigate a bizarre litany of phenomena; including unidentified flying objects, animal mutilations, paranormal and poltergeist occurrences that appeared to erupt almost on a nightly basis. The list went on and on. The first piece of information the team learned from local people was that the ranch lay "on the path of the skinwalker". Was the skinwalker responsible for the weird happenings on this ranch? What followed was a multi-year odyssey into the dark unknown as the science team tried to pursue, measure and photograph the elusive "skinwalker". The complete account of the unprecedented research project is published in the book "Hunt for the Skinwalker".

In the religion and cultural lore of Southwestern tribes, there are witches known as skinwalkers who can alter their shapes at will to assume the characteristics of certain animals. Most of the world's cultures have their own shapeshifter legends. The best known is the werewolf, popularized by dozens of Hollywood movies. European legends as far back as the 1500's tell stories about werewolves. (The modern psychiatric term for humans who believe they are wolves is lycanthropy.) The people of India have a were- tiger legend. Africans have stories of were-leopards and were- jackals. Egyptians tell of were-hyenas.

In the American Southwest, the Navajo, Hopi, Utes, and other tribes each have their own version of the skinwalker story, but basically they boil down to the same thing--a malevolent witch capable of transforming itself into a wolf, coyote, bear, bird, or any other animal. The witch might wear the hide or skin of the animal identity it wants to assume, and when the transformation is complete, the human witch inherits the speed, strength, or cunning of the animal whose shape it has taken.

"The Navajo skinwalkers use mind control to make their victims do things to hurt themselves and even end their lives," writes Doug Hickman, a New Mexico educator. "The skinwalker is a very powerful witch. They can run faster than a car and can jump mesa cliffs without any effort at all."

For the Navajo and other tribes of the southwest, the tales of skinwalkers are not mere legend. Just ask Michael Stuhff. A Nevada attorney, Stuhff is likely one of the few lawyers in the history of American jurisprudence to file legal papers against a Navajo witch. He has often represented Native Americans in his practice. He understands Indian law and has earned the trust of his Native American clients, in large part because he knows and respects tribal religious beliefs.

As a young attorney in the mid-70s, Stuhff worked in a legal aid program based near Genado Arizona. Many, if not most, of his clients were Navajo. His legal confrontation with a witch occurred in a dispute over child custody and financial support. His client, a Navajo woman who lived on the reservation with her son, was asking for full custody rights and back child support payments from her estranged husband, an Apache man. At one point during the legal wrangling, the husband got permission to take the son out for an evening, but didn't return the boy until the next day. The son later told his mother what had transpired that night.

According to the son, he spent the night with his father and a "medicine man." They built a fire atop a cliff and, for many hours, the medicine man performed ceremonies, songs, and incantations around the fire. As dawn broke, the three traveled into a wooded area near a cemetery, where they dug a hole. Into the hole, the medicine man deposited two dolls made of wood. One of the dolls was made of dark wood, the other of light wood. It was as if the two dolls were meant to represent the mother and her lawyer. Although Stuhff wasn't sure how seriously to take the news, he recognized that it certainly didn't sound good, so he sought out the advice of a Navajo professor at a nearby community college.

"He told me that the ceremony I had described was very powerful and very serious and that it meant that I was supposed to end up buried in that cemetery," Stuhff says. "He also said that a witch can perform this type of ceremony only four times in his life, because if he tries it more than that, the curse would come back on the witch himself. He also told me that if the intended victim found out about it, then the curse would come back onto the person who had requested it."

Stuhff thought about a way to let the husband know that he had found out about the ceremony, so he filed court papers that requested an injunction against the husband and the unknown medicine man, whom he described in the court documents as "John Doe, A Witch." The motion described in great detail the alleged ceremony. The opposing attorney appeared extremely upset by the motion, as did the husband and the presiding judge. The opposing lawyer argued to the court that the medicine man had performed "a blessing way ceremony," not a curse. But Stuhff knew that the judge, who was a Navajo, could distinguish between a blessing ceremony, which takes place in Navajo hogans (homes), and what was obviously a darker ceremony involving lookalike dolls that took place in the woods near a cemetery. The judge nodded in agreement when Stuhff responded. Before the judge could rule, Stuhff requested a recess so that the significance of his legal motion could sink in. The next day, the husband capitulated by agreeing to grant total custody to the mother and to pay all back child support.

"I took it very seriously because he took it seriously," Stuhff says. "I learned early on that sometimes witches will do things themselves to assist the supernatural, and I knew what that might mean."

Whether or not Stuhff literally believes that witches have supernatural powers, he acknowledges that this belief is strongly held in the Navajo nation. Certain communities on the reservation had reputations as witchcraft strongholds, he says. It is also unknown whether the witch he faced was a skinwalker or not. "Not all witches are skinwalkers," he says, "but all skinwalkers are witches. And skinwalkers are at the top. They are a witch's witch, so to speak."

According to University of Nevada-Las Vegas anthropologist Dan Benyshek, who specializes in the study of Native Americans of the Southwest, "Skinwalkers are purely evil in intent. I'm no expert on it, but the general view is that skinwalkers do all sorts of terrible things---they make people sick, they commit murders. They are graverobbers and necrophiliacs. They are greedy and evil people who must kill a sibling or other relative to be initiated as a skinwalker. They supposedly can turn into were-animals and can travel in supernatural ways."

Benyshek and other scientists do not necessarily endorse the legitimacy of the legends, but they recognize the importance of studying stories about skinwalkers because the power of the belief among Native Americans manifests itself in ways that are very real. "Oh, absolutely," says Benyshek explains. "Anthropologists have conducted scientific investigations into the beliefs in Native American witchcraft because of the effects of such beliefs on human health."

Anthropologist David Zimmerman of the Navajo Nation Historic Preservation Department explains: "Skinwalkers are folks that possess knowledge of medicine, medicine both practical (heal the sick) and spiritual (maintain harmony), and they are both wrapped together in ways that are nearly impossible to untangle."

As Zimmerman suggests, the flip side of the skinwalker coin is the power of tribal medicine men. Among the Navajo, for instance, medicine men train over a period of many years to become full- fledged practitioners in the mystical rituals of the Dine' (Navajo) people. The U.S. Public Health Service now works side by side with Navajo medicine men because the results of this collaboration have been proven, time and again, in clinical studies. The medicine men have shown themselves to be effective in treating a range of ailments.

"There has been a lot of serious research into medicine men and traditional healers," says Benyshek. "As healers, they are regarded as being very effective in some areas."
But there is a dark side to the learning of the medicine men. Witches follow some of the same training and obtain similar knowledge as their more benevolent colleagues, but they supplement both with their pursuit of the dark arts, or black magic. By Navajo law, a known witch has forfeited its status as a human and can be killed at will. The assumption is that a witch, by definition, is evil.

"Witchcraft was always an accepted, if not widely acknowledged part of Navajo culture," wrote journalist A. Lynn Allison. "And the killing of witches was historically as much accepted among the Navajo as among the Europeans." Allison has studied what she calls the "Navajo Witch Purge of 1878" and has written a book on the subject. In that year, more than 40 Navajo witches were killed or "purged" by tribe members because the Navajo had endured a horrendous forced march at the hands of the U.S. Army in which hundreds were starved, murdered, or left to die. At the end of the march, the Navajo were confined to a bleak reservation that left them destitute and starving. The gross injustice of their situation led them to conclude that witches might be responsible, so they purged their ranks of suspected witches as a means of restoring harmony and balance. Tribe members reportedly found a collection of witch artifacts wrapped in a copy of the Treaty of 1868 and "buried in the belly of a dead person." It was all the proof they needed to unleash their deadly purge.

"Unexplained sickness or death of tribal members or their livestock could arouse suspicion of witchcraft," wrote Allison in her book. "So could an unexplained reversal of fortune, good or bad."

In the Navajo world, where witchcraft is important, where daily behavior is patterned to avoid it, prevent it, and cure it, there are as many words for its various forms as there are words for various kinds of snow among the Eskimos. If the woman thought he was adan'ti, she thought he had the power of sorcery-to convert himself into animal form, to fly, to perhaps become invisible. Very specific ideas. Where had she gotten them?

The Navajo people do not openly talk about skinwalkers, certainly not to outsiders. Author Tony Hillerman, who has lived for many years among the Navajo, used the skinwalker legend as the backdrop for one of his immensely popular detective novels, one that pitted his intrepid Navajo lawmen Jim Chee and Joe Leaphorn against the dark powers of witchcraft. The following excerpt is from Skinwalkers:

"You think that if I confess that I witched your baby, then the baby will get well and pretty soon I will die," Chee said. "Is that right? Or, if you kill me, then the witching will go away."
"You should confess," the woman said. "You should say you did it. Otherwise, I will kill you."

Hillerman has been harshly criticized by some Navajo for bringing unwanted attention to the subject of skinwalkers. "No one who has ever lived in the Navajo country would ever make light of this sinister situation," wrote one critic after Hillerman's book was produced as a movie that aired on PBS in 2003.

Anthropologist Zimmerman explains why so little information is available on skinwalkers: "Part of the reason you won't find a lot of information about skinwalkers in the literature is because it is a sensitive topic among the Dine. This is often referred to as proprietary information, meaning it belongs to the Dine' people and is not to be shared with the non-Dine'."

We know from personal experience that is it extremely difficult to get Native Americans to discuss skinwalkers, even in the most general terms. Practitioners of adishgash, or witchcraft, are considered to be a very real presence in the Navajo world. Few Navajo want to cross paths with naagloshii (or yee naaldooshi), otherwise known as a skinwalker. The cautious Navajo will not speak openly about skinwalkers, especially with strangers, because to do so might invite the attention of an evil witch. After all, a stranger who asks questions about skinwalkers just might be one himself, looking for his next victim.

"They curse people and cause great suffering and death," one Navajo writer explained. "At night, their eyes glow red like hot coals. It is said that if you see the face of a Naagloshii, they have to kill you. If you see one and know who it is, they will die. If you see them and you don't know them, they have to kill you to keep you from finding out who they are. They use a mixture that some call corpse powder, which they blow into your face. Your tongue turns black and you go into convulsions and you eventually die. They are known to use evil spirits in their ceremonies. The Dine' have learned ways to protect themselves against this evil and one has to always be on guard."

One story told on the Navajo reservation in Arizona concerns a woman who delivered newspapers in the early morning hours. She claims that, during her rounds, she heard a scratching on the passenger door of her vehicle. Her baby was in the car seat next to her. The door flung open and she saw the horrifying form of a creature she described as half-man, half-beast, with glowing red eyes and a gnarly arm that was reaching for her child. She fought it off, managed to pull the door closed, then pounded the gas pedal and sped off. To her horror, she says, the creature ran along with the car and continued to try to open the door. It stayed with her until she screeched up to an all-night convenience store. She ran inside, screaming and hysterical, but when the store employee dashed outside, the being had vanished. Outsiders may view the story skeptically, and any number of alternative explanations might be suggested, but it is taken seriously on the Navajo reservation.

Although skinwalkers are generally believed to prey only on Native Americans, there are recent reports from Anglos claiming they had encountered skinwalkers while driving on or near tribal lands. One New Mexico Highway Patrol officer told us that while patrolling a stretch of highway south of Gallup, New Mexico, he had had two separate encounters with a ghastly creature that seemingly attached itself to the door of his vehicle. During the first encounter, the veteran law enforcement officer said the unearthly being appeared to be wearing a ghostly mask as it kept pace with his patrol car. To his horror, he realized that the ghoulish specter wasn't attached to his door after all. Instead, he said, it was running alongside his vehicle as he cruised down the highway at a high rate of speed.

The officer said he had a nearly identical experience in the same area a few days later. He was shaken to his core by these encounters, but didn't realize that he would soon get some confirmation that what he had seen was real. While having coffee with a fellow highway patrolman not long after the second incident, the cop cautiously described his twin experiences. To his amazement, the second officer admitted having his own encounter with a white-masked ghoul, a being that appeared out of nowhere and then somehow kept pace with his cruiser as he sped across the desert. The first officer told us that he still patrols the same stretch of highway and that he is petrified every time he enters the area.

Once Caucasian family still speaks in hushed tones about its encounter with a skinwalker, even though it happened in 1983. While driving at night along Route 163 through the massive Navajo Reservation, the four members of the family felt that someone was following them. As their truck slowed down to round a sharp bend, the atmosphere changed, and time itself seemed to slow down. Then something leaped out of a roadside ditch at the vehicle.

"It was black and hairy and was eye level with the cab," one of the witnesses recalled. "Whatever this thing was, it wore a man's clothes. It had on a white and blue checked shirt and long pants. Its arms were raised over its head, almost touching the top of the cab. It looked like a hairy man or a hairy animal in man's clothing, but it didn't look like an ape or anything like that. Its eyes were yellow and its mouth was open."

The father described as a fearless man who had served two tours in Vietnam, turned completely white, the blood drained from his face. The hair on his neck and arms stood straight up, like a cat under duress, and noticeable goose bumps erupted from his skin. Although time seemed frozen during this bizarre interlude, the truck continued on its way, and the family was soon miles down the highway.

A few days later, at their home in Flagstaff, the family awoke to the sounds of loud drumming. As they peered out their windows, they saw the dark forms of three "men" outside their fence. The shadowy beings tried to climb the fence to enter the yard but seemed inexplicably unable to cross onto the property. Frustrated by their failed entry, the men began to chant in the darkness as the terrified family huddled inside the house.

The story leaves several questions unanswered. If the beings were skinwalkers, and if skinwalkers can assume animal form or even fly, it isn't clear why they couldn't scale a fence. It is also not known whether the family called the police about the attempted intrusion by strangers.

The daughter, Frances, says she contacted friend, a Navajo woman who is knowledgeable about witchcraft. The woman visited the home, inspected the grounds, and offered her opinion that the intruders had been skinwalkers who were drawn by the family's "power" and that they had intended to take that power by whatever means necessary. She surmised that the intrusion failed because something was protecting the family, while admitting that it was all highly unusual since skinwalkers rarely bother non-Indians. The Navajo woman performed a blessing ceremony at the home. Whether the ceremony had any legitimacy or not, the family felt better for it and has had no similar experiences in the ensuing years.

This disturbing account is not offered as definitive proof of anything, particularly since we have not personally interviewed the witnesses. It is presented only as an illustration of the intense fear and unsettling descriptions that permeate skinwalker lore, and which are accepted at face value by the Native Americans for whom the skinwalker topic is not just a spooky children's story.

So, exactly how and when did the skinwalker legend intersect with the Gorman ranch in northeastern Utah? Retired teacher and UFO researcher Junior Hicks says his friends in the Ute tribe believe the skinwalker presence in the Uinta Basin extends back at least 15 generations. The Utes, described by historians as a fierce and warlike people, were sometimes aligned with the Navajo against common enemies during the 1800's. But the alliance didn't last. When the Utes first acquired horses from the Spanish, they enthusiastically embraced the Spanish example by engaging in the slave trade. They reportedly abducted Navajos and other Indians and sold them in New Mexico slave markets. Later, during the American Civil War, some Ute bands took orders from Kit Carson in a military campaign against the Navajo. According to Hicks, the Utes believe the Navajo put a curse on their tribe in retribution for many perceived transgressions. And ever since that time, Hicks was told, the skinwalker has plagued the Ute people.

The ranch property has been declared as off-limits to tribal members because it lies in the path of the skinwalker. Even today, Utes refuse to set foot on what they see as accursed land. But the tribe doesn't necessarily believe that the skinwalker lives on the ranch. Hicks says the Utes told him that the skinwalker lives in a place called Dark Canyon, which is not far from the ranch. In the early 1980's, Hicks sought permission from tribal elders to explore the canyon. He's been told there are centuries-old petroglyphs in Dark Canyon, some of which depict the skinwalker. But the tribal council denied his request to explore the canyon. One member later confided to Hicks that the tribe denied the request because it did not want to disturb the skinwalker for fear that it might "create problems." The tribe's advice to Hicks: "Leave it alone."

Dan Banyshek suggests that some parts of this account don't add up. He thinks it unlikely that the Navajo would enlist the assistance of a skinwalker to carry out their revenge on the Utes, no matter how much the tribe might want some payback on their enemy. "The skinwalkers are regarded as selfish, greedy, and untrustworthy," Banyshek says. "If the Navajo knew someone to be a skinwalker, they would probably kill him, not ask for his help with the Utes. Besides, even if he was asked, the skinwalker would be unlikely to help the Navajo get revenge, since his motives are entirely evil and self-serving. From the Navajo perspective, this story doesn't make sense."

But from the Ute perspective, it could ring true. "The Utes could very likely have concluded that the curse is real," explains Banyshek. "Different tribes or bands would often tell stories about the evil motives of other tribes they were in conflict with, about how another tribe was in league with witches, or how other tribes were cannibals. The Utes might tell themselves this story as a way to explain their own misfortunes."

Hicks told us that the Indians say they see them a lot. "When they go out camping," he says, "they sprinkle bark around their campsites and light it as protection against these things. But it's not just Indians. Whites see them, too." Like his Ute neighbors, Hicks sometimes uses the terms skinwalker and Sasquatch interchangeably. He says he's seen photographs of the telltale huge footprints often associated with Bigfoot, taken in the vicinity of the Gorman ranch. But whether it was a run-of-the-mill Sasquatch or a far more sinister skinwalker isn't always clear, even to those who accept he existence of both.

"There was an incident 16 years ago where a skinwalker was on a porch in Fort Duchesne," Hicks remembers. "They called the tribal police and tracked it east toward the river. They took some shots at it and thought they hit it because they found blood on the ground, but they never found a body."

We also conducted an interview with a Ute man who worked as a security officer for the tribe. He provided us with details about his own encounter with a Bigfoot or skinwalker. Brandon Ware (not his real name) received his police training at an academy associated with the Bureau of Indian Affairs. He says he was working the 10:00 p.m. to 4:00 a.m. shift, guarding a tribal building near a part of the reservation known as Little Chicago. Between midnight and 1:00 in the morning, Ware walked up to check on the building and noticed that the guard dogs inside were calm but intently staring through a window at something outside. They weren't barking, he said, just looking.

"I could see this big ol' round thing, you know, in the patio over there," Ware recalls, " and the hair started raising on my neck and I kinda got worried a little bit trying to figure out what things were. I stood there and watched it for a few minutes, then it came over the top and headed down the road. But I could smell it. Even after it was gone, you could smell it."

Ware says that when the creature realized it was being observed, it briefly looked over at Ware, then vaulted over a short wall that surrounded the patio area outside the building. He says it took off running toward the Little Chicago neighborhood, crashing into garbage cans as it moved past the homes, and generating a cacophony of loud barking by every dog in the immediate area. Ware says he then went into the building and telephoned another on-duty officer who was nearby. By the time Ware left the building, the other officer had pulled up in his patrol car.

Ware told the other officer to turn off his engine so they could listen to the hubbub that was still unfolding among the nearby homes. "We listened a little bit and we could hear it. Then we jumped in and took off. We headed down the hill to see if we could catch up to it."

The two officers didn't see the creature again that night, but had no trouble tracing its path through the cluster of homes because they were able to follow a noticeable trail of scattered garbage cans. "It must have gone straight on through, " Ware recalls. "We could see where cans---people usually tie up their cans---they were all off. I told the other officer, 'hey man, maybe it picked up them cans and was throwing them at those dogs'."

Ware provided us with further details about what he had seen. His initial impression was of something dark and round. But he says that when the creature stood erect to vault over the patio wall, it appeared to be "huge." Ware was carrying a large flashlight at the time of the encounter. He says he was using the flashlight just minutes before the encounter while checking the doors of the building, but when he tried to use it to illuminate the creature, the light wouldn't turn on. When the creature took off running down the hill, the flashlight clicked back on.

"He moved quick," he told us. "Whatever it was, it moved---I called him a 'he'---it could have been a she. It could have been whatever, but he moved quick going down through there. But it was kind of cool. It was neat. I never knew it....it was something I've never seen before. I've heard about them. I heard the old people talking about some of these things."

Just a few nights later, Ware got a chance for a second look. He and another officer, "Bob", were patrolling a back road that emerges at a spot known as Shorty's Hill. They emerged from the road to a pasture area that is punctuated by a large rock. "I don't know if it was the same guy or not," Ware says. "It was a big ol' black hairy thing hanging there, and when it turned around, it had big ol' eyes on him about yea big. We'd just passed it and I told Bob 'there he is,' and then he come to a screeching halt and we backed up. By the time we got out, it was gone."

Ware described the creature's eyes as being "coal red" and unusually large. He isn't sure whether the headlights of the patrol car might have affected his perception of the beast's eye color, but tends to doubt it. He has no doubt about the presence of the beast itself. "We got out there to go look and we had shotguns and pistols and everything. We were going to blow him away," Ware admits.

When pressed for his opinion of what he had seen, whether it might have been a Sasquatch or even a skinwalker, Ware's response seemed to draw a distinction between the two, but the distinction became blurry as the conversation progressed and Ware explained his understanding of tribal lore.

"Sasquatch, he's an old man, an old man that lives on a mountain," he explained. "He just comes in and looks at people and then he goes back out again. He just lives there all his life, never takes care of himself, and just smells real bad. Almost like, almost like that guy, like he is dirty, dirty human being smell is what it smelled like...a real deep, bad odor....It smelled like dirty bad underarms...The closer I got, the worse the smell got." Could the creature he saw have been a skinwalker?

"Nope," said Ware. "A skinwalker's smaller. A skinwalker is the size of humans, six foot and under. They don't come in most of the time to where the animals are at. They come in where people are at. They can come right here and you'd never know he was standing here looking at you in the middle of the night...they can take the shape of anything they want to take the shape of. Like I said, they're medicine."

Ware said that skinwalker sightings among the Utes are not uncommon. He told us of an encounter with two shapeshifters near the Gorman ranch. The figures he described are so unusual, so far outside our own concept of reality as to be almost comical, like something out of a Saturday morning cartoon. One local who saw them in the road in Fort Duchesne described them as humans with dog heads smoking cigarettes. But Ware was perfectly serious in his description. He certainly did not bare his soul for comic effect and we have no interest in making light of his story. For him, and for many others, skinwalkers are as real as the morning sun or the evening moon. They are a part of everyday life, and they most certainly are integral to the story of the Gorman ranch.

Could the Utes have used the skinwalker curse as an all- encompassing explanation for their assorted tribal misfortunes, as Banyshek asks? Or are they relying on the legend as an umbrella explanation for the wide range of paranormal events that have been reported in the vicinity of their lands for generations--in particular, in the vicinity of the ranch?

If a skinwalker really is a shapeshifter, capable of mind control and other trickery, might it also have the ability to conjure up nightmarish visions of Bigfoot or UFOs? Could it steal and mutilate cattle, incinerate dogs, generate images of monsters , unknown creatures, or extinct species, and could it also frighten hapless residents with poltergeist-like activity?

At the very least, the skinwalker legend might be a convenient way for the Utes to grasp a vast menu of otherwise inexplicable events, the same sort of events that might stymie and confuse a team of modern scientists.

One thing is sure, by summer 2007 it is obvious that the legend of skinwalkers is entering popular culture in ways not seen before.

Colm Kelleher and George Knapp
Authors: Hunt for the Skinwalker
http://www.huntfortheskinwalker.com